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[Note by 2playgames: I'd like to use this story for our game. I've added a poll to see what other people think.]

Note by 2playgames: I'd like to use this story for our game. I've added a poll to see what other people think.


I've come up with three fantasy-setting factions (I have two others I'm working on, but I'm going to refine them a bit first.  I'm not sure about overall story, but the factions have their own concept and "character".  I think I went a little overboard, so some of the ideas could use some trimming or refinement, but it's all tentative, anyways.  Their history and future, while vaguely described, leaves much to be added as a story is carved.  I've left ambiguous references to hard times in the recent past, so details can be filled in later.  Because I'm going into detail about their economic, base-building, and army traits, I've made an assumption about resources.  There will be three types of resources shared by every faction:

- raw metal
- food
- building material

Each faction will also have its own unique resource which the other factions don't share.  Different factions do share the three basic resources, but may extract them differently.  Raw metals exist as part of the natural environment (similar to mines in warcraft).  They have a limited number of resources that can be extracted before they are depleted.  After depletion they can still be worked, but will only produce a small fraction of what they did originally (think vespene from starcraft).  Food is collected by structures (such as farms) built across the map, and consumed over time to support units and civilians.  The final resource, building materials, can be extracted from numerous sources.  Forests and rock faces can be used to extract wood or stone (both of which are immediately translated into the generic "building materials"), and all factions will have some form of alternative to "manufacture" building materials (albiet at expense) when the non-renewable resource runs out.


So, now the factions themselves (these are long, by the way):

Balkurn Dwarves:
A heavily militaristic clan of dwarves has risen to prominance among their kin in recent years.  Many of the old houses are in decline, and no longer able to protect their own kinsfolk.  The dwarves of Balkurn have since taken up that mantle, and nearly every dwarven citadel in the subcontinent now flies the brown and black banners of Balkurn.  With new successes, Balkurn now dares to venture into territory long abandoned by dwarves.  Their coming is not always welcome.

Build Style:
The dwarves built in very tightly packed cities.  Their structures are tall and have very small bases.  All Balkurn settlements are begin with a basic citadel.  This structure starts small, but can be upgraded several times to give nearby structures large bonuses.  With the exception of new citadels, all structures must be placed next to an existing structure.  In this way, all dwarven settlements are a "chain" of structures that are connected to the citadel.  If the chain is broken, and a structure is cut off from a citadel, the player loses control of it (it stops repairing and functioning, and new structures cannot be attached to it) until it is reconnected to the citadel.  Moreover, the farther a building is from the closest citadel, the more it will cost.  This cost penalty can be alleviated by upgrading the citadel.  All this means that dwarven bases are tightly packed.

Almost all dwarven structures can be built into walls to act as part of the fortifications.  They can allow access to walls for your own troops while depriving that of enemies.  Dwarven bases can also be upgraded with "archways".  Archways allows buildings to remain connected while allowing units to pass in between them.  Archways can also act as an overpass if placed adjacent to a wall.  The dwarf base is an incredibly compact creation with a lot of architectural option, and very potent defensively.  Its downside is that expanding outwards is difficult, and because a new base must be built on every resource site (there are no "mining camps" for the dwarf faction), it means the dwarves are forced to be heavily centralized and to spread out their influence through a few very tightly packed bases.

Military units:
The Balkurn dwarves are a vicious infantry faction.  Their units are built in tightly disciplined regiments and fight well when in formation.  They have excellent siege weapons to complement their infantry.  The dwarves lack mounted units, and have almost nothing quick on the battlefield, making them difficult to use as harassment, and to stop harassment (this is counteracted by their centralized bases, which are difficult to harass in the first place).  Although they are not skilled archers, Balkurn dwarves have by far the best composite bows and crossbows.  Their range units are by far superior at short and mid-ranges, but they don't have longbows for long range assaults.  Although they don't have much in the way of magic, the dwarves have superb leadership, and a select few among them carry the ability to go berserk in combat.  Berserkergang of a lesser extent is fairly common among the ranks of Balkurn warriors, but those who master it become legendary warriors, far surpassing the physical limitations of their small bodies.

Economy:
The Balkurn economy is largely dictated by their centralized base structure.  They can build "mining shafts" overtop any metal deposit to automatically extract it for what it's worth, but like all buildings they must connect this to an existing citadel.  Dwarves are excellent miners, and extract metals with a higher efficiancy than other factions.  Dwarves gain food by building greenhouses.  These greenhouses are large conicle spires which allow sunlight to filter in.  They are very space efficiant, but among the most fragile components of a dwarf base.  Because their shadows can interfere with sunlight collection, these greenhouses cannot be built adjacent to each other. 

The dwarven unique resource are trade goods.  These are produced by connecting citadels with roads.  The further a trade cart goes to reach its destination, the more trade goods are produced at the end.  Certain structures can also be added to a cluster to increase its trade capacity.  If two citadels are ever "connected" and become part of the same cluster, they will not trade with each other again unless the link between them is broken. Trade goods can be used in the place of any other resource if there is a shortage.  Traders are vulnerable to harassment by enemies, since they must pass outside of the powerful dwarf defensive barriers.


Nisyrran Elves
These elves (often called the "Immortal Elves") believe that they are the superior race on the earth, and all others are slaves beneath them.  While they are often regarded as evil and manipulative by others, the Nisyrrans treat their slaves with dignity and respect (in some ways, they treat them like children, giving them chores that are expected to be done without question).  They believe that they are the guardians of the world and all its inhabitants.  With the rise of a new generation to power, Nisyr has suddenly become quite aggressive, believing that any threat to the peace and serenity of the world must be brought to order by force.  Many wars have since been fought by Nisyr, and many neighbouring realms crushed beneath them.

The Nisyrran Elves are often called immortal because they have a way to ressurrect their fallen comrades (this ressurection process does not reverse aging, however, but can be used to slow it down; Nisyrran elves live 3-4 times longer than normal elves).  By ritually placing a piece of their heart in a family shrine, an elf ensures that if he is killed in battle, his spirit can be summoned and his body completely restored (this process takes time, and even once completed the elf's body is highly attrified; it takes weeks to return to full strength).  Only beings of immense spiritual power can permeanently kill a Nisyrran elf without destroying his family shrine.

Build Style:
The Nisyrran faction has a "build anywhere" style.  Their structures are all stand-alone.  One downside of this is that structures can never be connected to form an artificial barricade; proper walls must be used to close off an area.  Nisyr bases are both the most spread out and defensively liable of all factions.  Nisyr structures are build by slaves.  When a structure is designated, slaves are dispatched from a work station and automatically begin work.  This allows them to simply place a structure and know that it will eventually get down.  Placing a structure too far away, however, may mean slaves will take a long time to reach it and begin construction.

Military units:
Because they regard themselves as guardians to their slaves, they never allow a slave to enter combat.  The military of Nisyr takes into account that individual units are effectively immortal.  Their units are all lightly armoured in favour of quickness and mobility in battle.  They deal large quantities of damage with both melee and ranged attacks.  They have skilled cavalry units, as well.  Their lack of heavy units and weak siege weapons, however, can be a hinderance.

Nisyrra's population is actually quite small.  Due to its unique ressurrection capacity, casualties in an individual battle are not particularly meaningful, but they cannot sustain too many troops in one place at any given time, and have a tight population cap as a result (slaves do not count to this cap).  Nisyrran units are naturally adept at magic.  While most focus in martial combat, and use minor magic to enhance their abilities, captains, priests and magistrates are known to be potent spellcasters in their field of specialization.   

Economy:
Nisyrra's economy is based on two tiers: slave labour and elite labour.  Slaves not only build structures of the Nisyrran Elves, but they will also operate mining facilities, lumber mills, quarries, and farms.  These resources are then deposited for future use.  Food is primarily used to support slaves; more food means more slaves means more resources.  Building supplies are used to build more structures of any variety.  Many siege weapons and structures require metal to function.  However, the most valuable asset to the Nisyrran economy is their unique resource: refined metal.  Refined metal is created by consuming raw metal (as extracted from metal deposits on the map) and then using a special structure operated by civilian elves to enhance and imbue these metals for use in weapons.  There are three settings available to refinement operations: normal (produces 1 part refined metal at cost of 5 parts raw metal every interval), rush (produces 2 parts refined metal at cost of 20 parts parts raw metal every interval), and halt (no operation).  If you need raw metals, but only have refined metals, the refined variety can be used in its place.  However since the conversion rate is 5:1 (or if you're on hurry mode, 10:1), this is not a smart trade-off.


Kingdom of Tharwain
There was once a time when the Kingdom of Tharwain ruled over an empire that stretched across the subcontinent.  In the wake of the fall of Naraloth dwarves two hundred years before, they spread into the mountains of the north and even pressed into the west where they encountered Nisyrra under better times, when the leadership was more accepting of a powerful human nation at its doorsteps - so long as it remained peaceful.

Tharwain has seen dark days since the plague swept across it.  Its outlying cities are in disrepair, its people ruled more or less by local warlords and bandits who have long since chased out or assimilated the garrisons, and in the main cities powerful guilds and factions lead by disenfranchised nobility now run the daily operation of the state.  If the king has any power left, he does not show it outside of the capital.  Although the Kingdom of Tharwain extends across most of the continent, its power is now fractured and retreating.

Build Style:
Tharwain does most of its building using specialized "build plots".  Only town halls, mining camps, outposts, and castles can be placed independantly on the map.  All these structures are built by settlers, which disband after being used to create town halls or a castle.  Mining Camps (also quarries) can only be built on top of a metal deposit (or rock face).  The other three structures will all produce "build plots" radially around themselves.  These plots can be used to build the other type of structures (outposts cannot build certain kinds of structures, and are primarily used for military buildings and for adding fortification around an existing settlement).

Other structures, including the barracks, marketplace, and granary, each have a special function; once built, civilian structures will automatically start to appear around them to enhance their operation.  Farms will build around granaries to add food to the stockpile, for instance.  As well, every "civilian" structure that appears around your main structures harbours a certain amount of population, which increases your food consumption.  All town halls and castles can be upgraded to add another ring of build plots around them, increasing their size.  Walls are built in circles around the furthest extent of your settlement at the time.  New structures and build plots will be placed outside the walls afterwards if you wish to expand more (keep in mind that walls will still be able to provide defences for outlying city components).  Castles support better walls than town halls, and also come equipped with built-in defensive capabilities.

Military units:
Tharwain is really the most "bread and butter" faction in this regard.  They have a good balance of heavy and light infantry, cavalry, archers, and siege weapons.  This balance gives them a strong edge in battle.  One of their most interesting aspects is their ability to draft citizens quickly.  Drafted groups begin at level 0 (rather than level 1) incurring a penalty to their combat abilities until they gain experience.  Units can also be disbanded (you will lose all their experience, however) to add to your civilian population.

One interesting aspect is that Tharwain produces its units and equipment seperately.  Equipment can be produced and stored away in the armouries of your barracks.  These supplies can be queued up independantly of military units and will be produced by your blacksmiths.  When the time comes, you can draft or recruit units (draft is much faster, but has an experience penalty attached) using the equipment you've built up.  Having a large amount of decent equipment can counteract the experience penalty of a draft.  When units are disbanded (note, units must be disbanded by entering a barracks, and it cannot be done during battle) the supplies are returned to the armoury for future use.

Tharwain effectively uses a balance of high veterency units as their permeanent combat force, and recruits and drafts as need arises to form fodder to support those elite units.  This form of combat, combined with their very balanced unit selection, results in a dangerous and versitile military force.

Economy:
By building mining camps on top of mineral deposits, Tharwain can extract resources without needing to invest in nearby infrastructure.  However, because the mining camp cannot replace workers on its own, it is very vulnerable to harassment if there isn't a somewhat nearby settlement (an outpost will do) to resupply workers.  Like the economies for the other factions, this is all automated.  Quarries for rock faces work the same way.  Lumber mills can be a structure added to town hall, outpost, or castle clusters to harvest wood for building.  Granaries can be built on build plots, and will support farms around them, which will produce food.  Granaries are very cheap structures, and farms are replaced quickly, making them ideal "outside" structures to take the fall in the case of battles.

The unique Tharwain resource is "currency".  This is gained through passive taxation of the population.  Your soldiers (but not other groups who work for you, such as blacksmiths), will demand a certain amount of pay.  This makes maintaining a large army for a long period of time expensive.  Pay is indendant of veterency (but is affected by unit type), making a small elite force more affordable than a large but inexperienced one.  The marketplace is an interesting structure since it allows you to purchase weapons for unit types or other resources using your currency.  They also produce a good sum of taxes, themselves.  If you ever go broke, you will have a warning time before units start deserting.  Deserting units will just disappear (although not if they're actively fighting), and won't return their arms to the armoury.

Caeluin
The kingdom of Caeluin exists in the distant southwest.  About a hundred and fifty years ago, however, a purge within Caeluin sent a large contingeant of its population - particularly its military - into exile.  Most ended up in the islands off the coast of Tharwain where they acted as mercenaries and merchants.  Devoid of any authority to rule over them, the Caeluin exiles made a strong power base along the fringes of Tharwain.

The "second Caeluin state" is loathed by Nisyrra and Tharwain alike.  The Caeluites imported women to their new state - as their exile population was nearly 90% male - and cared little for the race of these women.  As a result, Caeluin is a thorough mix of human and elf of many different creeds.  They are regarded as bastards by neighbouring states.

In the past eighty years, as trade has mostly frozen, and the fish stocks have declined suddenly.  Caeluin has turned to piracy for its own survival, and has formed a network of secret alliances along the coastline and even into the interior of the continent.  Anywhere human-elf hybrids exist in numbers, Caeluin sympathies are strong.  For the past thirty years, they have been at open war ( -2playgames) with both Nisyrra and Tharwain.  While their military is not as strong as either, they have long since learned how to defeat a better equipped and numerically advantaged foe.

Caeluin is a very speed and stealth oriented faction that focusses on drawing out its enemies and avoiding direct confrontation until that foe is exhausted and ill prepared.

JESUS DARVIN! Do you have any life at all?! It had to take you all freaking day to write all that!

This is why we wuv u.

I haven't read it all, I will do that later, but it looks pretty awesome. Maybe the dwarves and elves are too evil, but I'll see about that later when I read it all.

As a side note, I see you've added some discussion comments in the Wiki. That's OK, but if you think the discussion will get large or is important, please put a topic in the forum.

Four days of 90 minute bus commutes spent thinking and jotting down ideas followed by an hour of typing it up, actually.


The elves are arrogant and vengeful, but not necessarily evil.  Even though "slave" is a very descriptive word for the status of non-elves of their society, they would not be treated badly.  In the interest of keeping it short and to the point, I left out some details.  Philosophically, Nisyrrans justify their mastery of the other races because they are the ones with the matured reason to act as guardians over the others.  In other words, although they don't allow their slaves any freedoms, they are also ideologically obliged to provide a high standard of living.  Nisyr slaves, although effectively lacking any self-determination, have a standard of living that far surpasses peasants of any other society.  At first glance, Nisyr does look evil, but but the more you hear their point of view, the more you realize it's not that simple.  I very intentionally built them like that.

The dwarves are aggressive, but part of that is just the setting, which is implicitly a dangerous age.  Balkurn may expand into outlying territories, but many of these territories are lawless regions with contested or undetermined control.  These regions weren't exactly peaceful to begin with, and Balkurn is simply a big power moving in and "stabalizing" the region.  Similar to Nisyrra (although not quite the same) they basically view their imperialism as altruistic, whether or not the people they occupy agree.

The kingdom of Tharwain is actually pretty evil, too, because for the most part its ruled by rogue warlords and guild factions motivated by greed for gold and power.  The others have ideological motivations and believe what they're doing will lead to peace and prosperity of all, even if their methods and philosophies may be questionable.  These guys more or less don't give a damn about their own peasants and simply want more power.

I'll keep what you said in mind about the Wiki.  I've never done any Wiki editing before, so after taking a quick tutorial I set to work without another thought ^_^

I say let's do this 

Darvin... this is awesome!!

I'm looking forward to hear what you have in mind for the other two factions you are working on.

@2playgames: It's not really a story yet, but it's coming close. The factions have been described, now we need actions to complete the setting.

But first I'd like to know what other factions are going to be in the story

Solinx

[Varnost]

I can tell you the concept for one of the other two factions.  I still haven't finished its design, but the basic idea is there.  The other faction, I'm seriously reconsidering some of my initial ideas because its concept doesn't seem as fluid and natural as the others.

Varnost
The people of Varnost have been displaced by war and famine in their traditional homelands.  Desperate and homeless, they have spread into the southwest in search of a new livelihood.  After decades of rejection and hostilities, Varnost's people have been transformed into a rampaging horde, ripping up settlements in their path in search of food and supplies.  The initiate waves of Varnost invaders have settled in the eastern fringes of the subcontinent, but more and more of them continue to arrive from their desolated motherland, and it's only a matter of time before they spill onwards once more.

Conceptually, Varnost is a very gothic faction (well, that WAS their inspiration).  Their entire society functions as a rampaging horde which can be used to completely overrun an enemy, then take up its settlement and use its resources.  Above and beyond Tharwain's drafting, these guys are the game's swarming faction.  I've also considered adding some Celtic influence to this faction to give them a druidic side in terms of magic.  Varnost would really be a scavenger in terms of resource collection and base building, more inclined to capture what its enemies have then build something itself.  When it does build something itself, it's most likely to be disorganized rabble.

good. just a question: will this be about good vs evil or everybody for himself?

and i was wondering if you could maybe draw a simple map of your world? that would be excellent flyer material

I think good vs evil is horribly cliched.  I've very specifically left orcs out of this fantasy world because they get typecast as the barbaric villains all the time.  Certainly there will be good people and evil people, but no one faction will be type-cast wholly as one or the other.  Moral ambiguity makes for a more interesting story, IMO.

Yes, pure good vs evil is history if it were for me to say. A more dynamic interaction between factions would be far more interesting. Betrayals, backstabbing, shifting of alliances, breaking or forging of alliances, coming to the aid of others because of a shared cause, even if only temporarily, better yet, come to the aid without giving reasons, leaving the other faction to guesses, etc.

There is so much possible that is blocked out by a pure good vs evil conflict.

A map would be nice, if you have pictured one already, or are easily able to do so.

Solinx

I've got a rough one in my head.  I'll draw up something tonight.

oh goodies :p

Cool

Solinx

so...what about it?

I haven't the time to read that now, but I will read that later.. or if it isn't this evening it will be tomorrow, but guy it's really a big job!

hey tdp, i don't know about darvin's drawing skills (maybe he can do it himself :p), but can you transform his map into an old lotr-like map, when it's done, for promotion material?

Yeah sure, but if I understand correctly, he hasn't drawn the map yet? but yeah of course I can. Now I'm going outside, make baby-sitting, I will be back around euh... in fact I don't know when I'll be back, certainly around 10.30 pm, I hope!
I'm printing the story to read it when I'll be doing my job

To clarify, I drew the map but it didn't reach my personal quality standards.  I'm going to increase my resolution and draw an awesome 800x600 map later tonight.

can you email it to me so i have an idea

I'm at school right now (time zones; it's noon here right now) and I don't have it on me.  The reason I didn't want to post it is because I want to dramatically change the mountains and coastline, so a lot of the shape of the world will be modified.

I suppose I'll just post it later tonight, and so long as everyone realizes it's still going to undergo considerable changes that'll be alright.

Yeah, and after you post it I'll make a 3D topology of it. Why? I dunno, sounded fun to me.
Posted on: November 21, 2006, 11:00:41 PMI LOVE you Darvin. You will eb a very rich man one day, with your great ideas.

I know this would take extra time to develop, but how about an underground impliment?

The Dwarves could dig underground and across the map (Depending where you started to do it). It would take a very long time to do (A good chunk of the match), but you could sap enemy walls (Collapsing them from underneath), or build a tunnel right into their base. Obviously this isn't necessarily a good idea: it's expensive, it's slow, you'd have to find a place to dump teh dirt (Which, if an enemy spotted the pile, could assume that the enemy is digging a tunnel and promptly withdraw units into his or her base for garrison), and if you were to start the tunnel in your base (which would be the most convenient, because you would be safe and you could easily feed the diggers resources and send units through quickly), the enemy can send units back through the tunnel right into the Dwarven base, eliminating the best part of the Dwarfs: Defense.

I truly believe sieging is the most important part. Land battles have been waaaay overdone in the past, so I think the world needs a sieging RTS, and an RTS that stresses territory. Because in real life, I highly doubt that there's too many battles where people just launch armies at each other randomly for no reason.

I think I'll write up my own idea. I know it won't be as likable as Darvin (Darvin's been stealing teh limelight since the moment he signed up to MeMw... I secretly have a hatred for him, but I have to keep it in check as he's seen as a Godly figure).

I really want to make this RTS territory and siege based.  Huge armies, huge battles, and lots of strategies.  Picking your fights will be just as important as winning them.  Winning an indecisive battle may end up being a bad thing depending on your position.  Beating an enemy fortress won't be as easy as bringing siege weapons, either.  Even if you destroy buildings, they remain on the battlefield as ruins and will provide cover for defenders.  Essentially, you can't sit back and fire siege weapons forever, you'll eventually have to march in.  Long battles giving the defender plenty of time to turn things around.

I do think sapper tunnels would be a cool idea, but they should have limited range; I don't think extending them across the entire map should be viable.  This is especially true because the dwarves will have some of the most deadly bases in the game, but the downside is that they can be cut off from each other and taken down individually.  If a dwarf could tunnel between all his bases, I'd imagine he'd be nigh impervious to all assaults.

Map is coming in about half an hour.  Gotta remake it because I've lost the file ^_^

Not done yet, but getting there:



Once I'm done the topographical map, I'm going to do political, historical, and biome maps to better describe the world.  Tharwain's historical empire takes up the vast chunk of the map, but has shrunken considerably (story-wise, most human factions in the region will fight identically to Tharwain and would be considered subfactions, anyways).  Nisyrra would be in the west (their main empire off the edge of the map), and Balkurn in the north (some of their empire off the edge of the map).

I'm going to imprint that map into my mind, and then divide them into maps.

Of course it'll be hard without the territories being mapped out

[Caeluin]

I've decided on the concept of the fifth and final faction.  Again, temporary name:

Caeluin
The kingdom of Caeluin exists in the distant southwest.  About a hundred and fifty years ago, however, a purge within Caeluin sent a large contingeant of its population - particularly its military - into exile.  Most ended up in the islands off the coast of Tharwain where they acted as mercenaries and merchants.  Devoid of any authority to rule over them, the Caeluin exiles made a strong power base along the fringes of Tharwain.

The "second Caeluin state" is loathed by Nisyrra and Tharwain alike.  The Caeluites imported women to their new state - as their exile population was nearly 90% male - and cared little for the race of these women.  As a result, Caeluin is a thorough mix of human and elf of many different creeds.  They are regarded as bastards by neighbouring states.

In the past eighty years, as trade has mostly frozen, and the fish stocks have declined suddenly.  Caeluin has turned to piracy for its own survival, and has formed a network of secret alliances along the coastline and even into the interior of the continent.  Anywhere human-elf hybrids exist in numbers, Caeluin sympathies are strong.  For the past thirty years, they have been at open war ( -2playgames) with both Nisyrra and Tharwain.  While their military is not as strong as either, they have long since learned how to defeat a better equipped and numerically advantaged foe.

Caeluin is a very speed and stealth oriented faction that focusses on drawing out its enemies and avoiding direct confrontation until that foe is exhausted and ill prepared.

looking good (both the map and the story) only thing i don't like about the map is the large amount of tiny little islands, it kinda makes it look like a randomly generated map in a mediocre rts..but maybe that's just because it's a purely topgraphical map

this looks really amazing... do you guys need any more help that doesn't require any computer skills?  :p

any help, however small it may be, is welcome

If we use Darvin's idea, can we still through in a few easter-egg factions into Skirmish? Oh please, please, please, please, PLEASE!

It's really only my Faction 1 that I want, I'm dead-set on tunneling. But I suppose Faction 4 and 5 would be nice also.

Tunnel has never really been done before, and I know it doesn't have much base in Darvin's idea... But I think it would mean the COOLEST Skirmishes.

You think that's a lot of islands?  Take a look at this map I designed for someone else's webgame:



Now THAT'S a lot of islands. (by the way, the webgame in question is tile based.  Every pixil on that map corresponds to one tile, the colour being the terrain type).

Ok, I might make a few more tweaks, but this is roughly finished:



I'll start to work on the political map tomorrow afternoon, once I'm done my 280 final (the course only runs for 3/4rds of the semester, so the final is now, not December)

I was playing around with your map, but I'll wait until you post your politics and territory before I give my opinions.

I really think those rivers should give strong strategy. Like it increases food production on the campaign or something.

Ah, so you're thinking more risk-style campaign.  While I like the idea (and the engine should support it), I was more thinking story-driven.  Notice that these are only major rivers.  There would be a great many minor rivers, too.

No, I was thinking of a campaign map like R:TW, and taking control of those rivers in the campaign is important.

I don't mean R:TW feel, but it's something on the campaign map that helps you alot if you take it.
Posted on: 23 November 2006, 06:51:49Summary.

This is a post just for overview, that way people who are new to this project can be directed to this post so they are not confused. I didn't make a topic for this because it seemed pointless. It's mostly for me to refer to so I and others can keep up with all this.

The story is written by Darvin. It has a mild fantasy element to it and takes play in medieval times.

Currently it has plans for 4 Factions: Baulkins the Dwarves of high technology and defenses, Nisyrran, the powerful Elves, Tharwain A kingdom of men, Varnost, A faction of large numbers, and Caeluin, the Pirates of mixed races.

Each faction will have a unique resource

Food is gained through buildings

Building material is harvested through rocks, trees, etc.

Gold is gained through mines. After depletion, gold is gain very slowly

Features in consideration



Rain

Interactive environments and field Engineers

Peace Time

The name

Quiver capacity

Forest strategies and fire

”Feel”

Fear/Discipline

Naval battles

Let me first add that the above points are starting points, from which we further refine the system around the game. It could also happen that one of these points changes, as this game has just started, and discussion about the development documents far from finished. Nothing is written in stone yet, and even after the initial discussion, there will always be a chance things change according to feedback by programmers, artist or testers.

Now, Darvin, that map looks good. It's clear that you've done that before

CoonDawg, you may not mean a risk style map, but that would certainly be a good feature for the engine. What you do mean is unclear to me, afterall, with risk you gain a bonus for holding territories (ok, you have to conquer a whole continent first, but the idea is there).

Solinx

CoonDawg, you may not mean a risk style map, but that would certainly be a good feature for the engine. What you do mean is unclear to me, afterall, with risk you gain a bonus for holding territories (ok, you have to conquer a whole continent first, but the idea is there).

What I mean is instead of Risk where gaining territory gets you a bonus like more units or money or whatever risk-game you're playing, I mean that, let's say you take a river. There is only one bridge on that river. You can put an army there to protect a large section of territory and prevent the enemy from crossing. HOWEVER, you can still use boats to get across, or make a bridge. It just slows them down.

But it has bonuses, too. The river increases food production and/or the speed at which units train. But this only works within a certain radius, and is less effective the farther out the village/camp/fortress is.

OK, I understood correctly afterall, you want an advanced risk style system, the bonuses, as well as an environmental strategical system.

Sounds good, as long as it doesn't get to complex. With that I mean that there shouldn't be too many options for crossing the river. The available bridge is the primary means, after comes making your own bridge or making boats/rafts, and that is enough. No hiring of pirates to get you across.

Edit: Also, don't quote the last post, unless you want to react to a specific part and need to make clear which part. Quoting the entire last post is just a wast of space, cost people time to make sure you didn't change anything, or left something out and... it's pretty useless

Solinx

It's really a good job that you're makin Darvin, keep it up. I have read the story, and I voted for it

Really good ideas Darvin, but I think there should be a sixth faction that is a very unusual and powerful faction. Dwelling in the mountainous regions of the North-East, the strange race of known only as the Kezvun make their abode. They appear as tall men that when angered burst into flame, scorching the ground before them. Their king is mighty and terrible and is rarely seen, but when he feels the need to come out onto the battlefield none may stand before him. The Kezvun are not native to this world, however, and they are here with some unknown purpose. The Kesvun are allies of the Nissyran Elves, though, and look down with scorn on races that do not have the gift of magic. Every Kesvun is very powerful in with fire, and all fear water the most. They bear a long grudge against the Balkurn Dwarves for the dwarves' intrusions into their mountains.

What do you think?

too much men :p

[Caeluin]

Exams are going well (really, who am I kidding?  They're driving me out of my mind!), and after considerable thought I've decided not to throw in any unique resource for Caeluin and Varnost.  I just can't think of anything that wouldn't be redundant, and they certainly don't need any given how management intensive they will be compared to other factions.  So, long overdue, the final two faction writeups:

Caeluin
The kingdom of Caeluin exists in the distant southwest.  About a hundred and fifty years ago, however, a purge within Caeluin sent a large contingeant of its population - particularly its military - into exile.  Most ended up in the islands off the coast of Tharwain where they acted as mercenaries and merchants.  Devoid of any authority to rule over them, the Caeluin exiles made a strong power base along the fringes of Tharwain.

The "second Caeluin state" is loathed by Nisyrra and Tharwain alike.  The Caeluites imported women to their new state - as their exile population was nearly 90% male - and cared little for the race of these women.  As a result, Caeluin is a thorough mix of human and elf of many different creeds.  They are regarded as bastards by neighbouring states.

In the past eighty years, as trade has mostly frozen, and the fish stocks have declined suddenly.  Caeluin has turned to piracy for its own survival, and has formed a network of secret alliances along the coastline and even into the interior of the continent.  Anywhere human-elf hybrids exist in numbers, Caeluin sympathies are strong.  For the past thirty years, they have been at open war with both Nisyrra and Tharwain.  While their military is not as strong as either, they have long since learned how to defeat a better equipped and numerically advantaged foe.


Buildings:
Caeluite communities are quaint and quiet, usually designed to be inconspicuous.  They merge into their surroundings well and are difficult to pick out at a distance.  They usually have light defences and rely on their natural setting, rather than fortifications, to aid them.  These humble structures are designed to be abandoned if the enemy comes in decisive force, and the entire community can escape to another safer location while Caeluite soldiers fight the intruders on their own terms.

All Caeluin bases center around a Town Hall or a Stronghold.  Roads and pathways can be added in a certain radius around the town hall or stronghold.  New structures can be commissioned within this region, but must conform to your roadways, which in turn must stay fairly close to the original foundation of the town.  In order to extend the range of a town hall or stronghold, a defence post must be placed.  The defence post allows for new walls (and therefor structures) to be placed radially around it (although its radius isn't as great as a town hall or stronghold).

Caeluin economic buildings all have square bases, and if placed adjacent will interconnect to form a sort of barrier.  This can also be done with circular based walls and gates to form a defensive compound.  Caeluin buildings often have exterior components in the form of open areas.  These are considered part of the structure, although they can be walked across.

An important note of Caeluin structures is that they are more difficult to spot at a distance due to their natural appearance and low profile.


Military:
The military strategies of the Caeluin Empire different wildly from that of the exiled state.  The exiles have taken up strategies of geurilla warfare, wearing down their enemies through constant harassment and picking them apart slowly.  Caeluin uses stealth and speed to its advantage in order to overcome stronger enemies.  By being persistant and elusive, they split up enemy forces, then wipe them out using stealthy and decisive ambushes.  Caeluin units are not particularly tough, but have devastating firepower.  Many are descended from forest elves, and are among the finest archers and woodsmen.

Caeluin's most deadly asset in battle is their espionage and subterfuge.  Their sneak attacks are often bolstered by secretly sabotauging enemy defences, and then using these same defences against their owners.  In this way, despite a definite lacking in terms of siege engineering, Caeluin can overcome even the most potent defences.


Economy:
Caeluin is traditionally a merchant group, and they prefer to act as such.  They use space efficiantly, keeping well organized settlements with lookouts far and wide to deal with trouble before it reaches them.  Mining, as with the other factions, simpy requires placing a mining camp over a metal deposit (does not require a settlement).  Food is gathered from very space effective terraces, a construct designed to keep the soil from eroding on the very raining islands in which Caeluin inhabits.  These are expensive to build, but require little labour for their produce and are very space efficiant.  They are also capable of building "gardens" inside forests, the only food producing structure for any faction that can function without removing trees first.  Gardens actually use trees to help produce food.

Because they require intensive military management and have a small labour force, Caeluin has no unique resource they are expected to manage.


Varnost
The people of Varnost have been displaced by war and famine in their traditional homelands.  Desperate and homeless, they have spread into the southwest in search of a new livelihood.  After decades of rejection and hostilities, Varnost's people have been transformed into a rampaging horde, ripping up settlements in their path in search of food and supplies.  The initiate waves of Varnost invaders have settled in the eastern fringes of the subcontinent, but more and more of them continue to arrive from their desolated motherland, and it's only a matter of time before they spill onwards once more.

Conceptually, Varnost is a very gothic faction (well, that WAS their inspiration).  Their entire society functions as a rampaging horde which can be used to completely overrun an enemy, then take up its settlement and use its resources.  Above and beyond Tharwain's drafting, these guys are the game's swarming faction.  I've also considered adding some Celtic influence to this faction to give them a druidic side in terms of magic.  Varnost would really be a scavenger in terms of resource collection and base building, more inclined to capture what its enemies have then build something itself.  When it does build something itself, it's most likely to be disorganized rabble.


Buildings:
Varnost bases are best described as chaotic.  The structures themselves are best described as haphazard and jury-rigged architecture.  In terms of what the player actively builds, the Varnost base is perhaps the most limited in selection.  The player can build resource acquisition structures, camps (for military units), and defensive compounds.  After being built, squatters will begin to automatically set up a Varnost community around any existing structure.  This community will sprawl outwards towards a maximum size.  Varnost can also inhabit abandoned enemy structures, converting them into Varnost slums.

There is one problem; these slums will quickly overpopulate to the point at which the inefficiant Varnost farming structures won't be able to support them.  In this way, Varnost's economy is ultimately unsustainable; they will just keep getting more and more people until they are forced to expand, or die trying.

Varnost is also capable of building dirt roads using military units.  These roads won't be settled on (preventing the slums from inhibiting military unit movement), but have a limited width.


Military:
Varnost is capable of raising vast hordes of people from the squalor of its slums in a short amount of time.  More advanced troops can take a while to train, but basic "fodder" units can be produced en masse in a matter of minutes.  Their empty homes will quickly fill up with more civilians, meaning that there's always another wave to take their place.

Varnost's army is somewhat similar to Tharwain's in that it has a large portion of cheap fodder supported by a small portion of expensive elite units.  Unlike Tharwain, which uses drafting and decommissioning to tactically raise a temporary army at the cost of its economy, Varnost is forced to continually raise an army at the cost of an economic collapse.  Where Tharwain is tactical and calculated, Varnost is rushed and uncoordinated.  As well, unlike Tharwain, the high end elite units aren't necessarily for Varnost.

All Varnost siege weapons are built by military units on the field.  They prefer ladders, rams, and occasionally towers, lacking the technical expertise for catapults.  As with buildings, Varnost is capable of capturing siege weapons and using them against their owners.


Economy:
Varnost's economy is the most unstable of all the factions (by far).  Building materials are largely inconsequential for them; they're extracted at the time of construction (and cannot be stored) by the units building the structure.  Slums will use any building materials present, but if there aren't, they'll still form as thatch huts clustered in a disorganized manner.  All but a few Varnost's manually buit buildings can be constructed without building materials, but will take longer.  In the late game when the map is barren (not uncommon with Varnost), they may be required to capture enemy structures and convert them in order to get the effects of certain structures of their own.

Varnost's farms are by far the least space effective.  They cost very little, but combined with the sprawl that follows with them they are ultimately doomed to failure.  Varnost's metal extraction is also inefficiant, in a very underhanded manner.  They actually extract metals faster than any other factions - but 50% of what they extract is lost to corruption and theft.  This means that Varnost can clear their side of the map of resources and have almost nothing to show for it by the mid-game.  Varnost has the bonus of having automated scavenging, but gets very low returns on this too.

Varnost, like Caeluin, has no unique resource, since they are more management intensive to begin with than the other factions.

Good descriptions Darvin

The Caeluin are definetly one of the factions I m going to enjoy playing, just like the Balkurn Dwarves and the Nisyrran Elves. Of course, not just playing, creating them too

Now the descriptions are out, we can start to focus more on the details, like units, etc.
In a min I'm off to work, probably till late in the evening, so tomorrow I'll start sprouting some topics.

Solinx

at least they'll never be able to accuse of making 'just another RTS'. those ideas are so original, good job

Well, here's the breakdown

Balkurn: the perfect faction for those who want to build their dream fortress.  Best infantry and siege weapons in the game by a longshot, but little magic and no cavalry.  Balanced archers, compact economy, and a heavy focus on decisive offense compensated by strong defences.  Perfect for players who want act with impunity.

Nisyrra: the "few but the strong" faction with unbelievably powerful units that will be heavily outnumbered.  Balanced in all ways of warfare, with a special focus on magic.  Very free form economically and building-wise, perfect for the perfectionist player ^_^

Tharwain: a strong balance of unit types, structures, and defences make it an "all around" faction.  Its military recruitment interferes with its economy, and must tactically use drafting and dismissal to raise armies when they're needed, while keeping a permeanent veteran force.  Perfect for those who want to bide their time...

Caeluin: the stealth and speed based faction with plenty of firepower.  Almost never engages enemies in the open field, and instead prefers to confuse and disorient opponents by constantly repositioning itself.  Compact and stealthy economy combined with ambushes makes it difficult to counter-harass.  The perfect choice for the underdog, this faction is outpowered and outnumbered in almost every scenario... but has the tools and methodology to come out ahead.

Varnost: this faction is out for their own demise, as well as their opponents'.  Their numbers just keep swelling no matter what the player does, growing into disorganized and squalor infested camps.  Their unstable economy eventually forces them to raise vast hordes of units to take new land by force.  This economically inefficiant behemoth is perfect for the aggressive player who wants to roll over his opponents with ungodly numbers.



In hindsight, Nisyrra probably needs a bit more gameplay "style" added to them, Caeluin mustn't become so frustrating as to be "unfun" to its opponents, and Varnost will definitely need help achieving balance at different skill levels.  I think Varnost will undoubtedly be the hardest to play because they are so incredibly unstable economically.  In other words... don't play Varnost in a sandbox...

Oh, and I've already started on rough unit and structure descriptions.

By looks of it, you've covered the most important playstyles. What do you mean with "Nisyrra probably needs a bit more gameplay "style" added to them"? The way I see it, that faction is more about individual units, which is the reason I'm not thinking about getting back on the massive battle numbers. Having to keep these few units alive in the fight against overwhelming forces can be quite a task already.

So whatever you do, please don't draw away too much from that.


What Im going to do is make a topic for each faction, containing the faction descriptions. In there we can start discussion about the units. There was more that I had planned. You can blame it on the 10 hour working day I had to do yesterday (didn't really expect to be gone for more than 3 hours... )

Solinx

Every faction has its "thing".  Balkurn has ridiculous base-building, Tharwain has its logistical challenge of draft and recruitment, Varnost has its unsustainable (if not downright self-destructive) economy, and Caeluin has stealthy ambush.  I don't think Nisyrra has the same distinct personality as the other ones.  That can be rectified with deep and immersive unit design, however.

Casualties won't mean much for Nisyrra in the long run.  In the short run, due to their tight population constrictions (on soldiers; workers are slaves and don't count to that limit), it will hurt a lot, but once they've replaced the units the problems are solved.  Because there is less competition over exp, units will max out their experience very quickly.

yup, and the elves have power in small numbers. i'd call that a thing. they also have their magic

I don't think Nisyrra has the same distinct personality as the other ones.  That can be rectified with deep and immersive unit design, however.

Casualties won't mean much for Nisyrra in the long run.  In the short run, due to their tight population constrictions (on soldiers; workers are slaves and don't count to that limit), it will hurt a lot, but once they've replaced the units the problems are solved.  Because there is less competition over exp, units will max out their experience very quickly.

Well, actually, Nisyrra units can be made to progress slow in gaining exp and revival shouldn't be easy either.
Nisyrra could be viewed on as a mix between Team RPG and RTS.

What I'd like to know is the actuall numbers of combatants you had in mind. How many units would they have at max?

Solinx

I was thinking the standard regiment size being ~18, with Nisyrra's standard size at ~6.  Then Nisyrra would have (on average) 2 regiments to every 3 of the opponent.  That comes out to 9:2. 

Mind you, although they lack "champions" (which are roughly the equivilent of toughened berserkers in a BFME comparison), their other heroes are in equal numbers to equivilents of other factions, but also of roughly equal quality.

We'll have to focus a lot on Nisyrran gameplay as time goes on.  One big issue will be that if they manage to stay decisive they'll just get stronger and stronger due to experience.  If they can't be defeated decisively, they steamroll.  If they can, they'll never be able to get all the unit experience back in time to survive.  That's why I think quickly capping their experience is for the best.

If you like, view experience as conditioning their bodies.  When they die, their bodies are attrified, and they must return to the battlefield to fully restore their combat strength.  Their actual combat experience maybe several times a full human's career, even if their bodies are fresh.

first of all,i believe we should add all these capabilities in the engine.