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I believe that there are a lot of people who play games. 
I believe that there are some people who wonders how these games are made.
I believe that a few don't want to play, but to make their own games.
...And I believe that a group of people like you, created in around 1 year and half, should have made at last a simple 0.1 beta.. But NOTHING!!!!
I remeber one day, when I recommended to the administrator of a website of a game I like too much, to see this engine, hoping that stimulates him to make a "sequel" of it.. But he said: -"What these guys gotta do is sit there on a chair and do some work, they only talk, talk and talk"-
-I was in silence, in front of my computer..-

-Yes, you're right- I said, after some seconds..

Now, if you REALLY want to see the BEST engine on the net, being developed by only ONE person, then you should meet Ivan, a russian programmer whose talent has to be distinguished, his engine is published on this page: www.neoaxisgroup.com

Hoping that this motivates you to Move your hands for something more than writing words, I mean, better to program the engine, I write to all of you boys, and hope you have good luck.
I know you're young, I'm also young, I'm just 17 years old, but I've researched a significant quantity of engines, and have met the conclussion that NeoAxis is the Best engine out there. Despite the lack of tutorials, or "the more graphical than programming oriented style", it has almost everything an engine should have, and even more!
Remember, not only the muscles grow if you stimulate them, do your best to make the most flexible, fantastic, super-inspirating-productive/stable-outstanding-breathtaking-wonderful-Just great RTS ENGINE.. That is why I gave you my Ideas ("Ideas provided by Aleph Wren to enhance the capabilities of this engine"), and why I write to you through this letter.

I'll be back soon, don't forget, Move, Move, Move: Go, go, go, work work work..!! THat is the way to victory.

Best regards,
Aleph Wren.

I'll be back soon, don't forget, Move, Move, Move: Go, go, go, work work work..!! THat is the way to victory.

Victory
As you can see, some stuff has already been done. It's true though, that so far only I have done any building (with a little bit of advice).

I regret not getting some work done over the summer, because in hindsight it was totally impractical for me to expect to get anything done during this semester. 

I have serious issues with time management to begin with, so unless I just sit down and work solid for four or five hours straight nothing gets done.  I simply can't do fifteen minutes of work here, and fifteen minutes of work there.  Every lab, assignment, project, I just have to sit down and work solid for hours on end to be productive.  I have bits and pieces of time throughout the day this semester (works for forum posting), but with the possible exception of some weekends I do not have any sizable block for working.

That said, I'm still committed to this project.  When I get some free time back, this will be the first thing I return to.  Hopefully since my new computer doesn't seem to HATE eclipse like my old one did (don't ask, I had so much trouble just getting that thing to work <_<) I can just show up one day and start working.  Probably mid-November, when my project courses end.

Incidentally, wouldn't your university be a good recruiting ground?

I've also heard from one of the teachers at my school that they are looking for a new Java 2D game engine for one of the first year courses, and because he was impressed with my work in that course (the Metal Gear game which you can find on my site) he asked me if I knew any. Guess which one I recommended

Incidentally, wouldn't your university be a good recruiting ground?

It would if any of the students here had free time <_<

Anyways, I certainly hope I can get my act together after some of my projects finish up (mid-November) and get to work on this project.  Hopefully we can make something that will kickstart this project and give it the life it needs.

Dudes if you ever had any hope of you are seriously deluded these guys have no clue. Making a game engine in java is also dumb. Serious high end projects would use c++ or c# and have a smaller better organized team who are not all college student who have home work to do. Anyway the way to go is c# and XNA. You guys would be better of developing a RTS game for an existing engine  

Neoaxis is too small he’s going to end up going to slow and having an obsolete engine when he’s done (if he in the highly unlikely circumstance ever gets done).  Visual3D.NET is the most advance XNA engine that I have found you would be seriously better off developing something off that.  Visual3D.NET have is still in the beta faze and will not be usable until at least beta 2.X and most likely you would want to wait for beta 3.X or RC 1. As soon as XNA 2.0 is out they will integrate that .

The Visual3D.NET team already are experienced they build the Realmware engine they have like 8 active member. If anyone here was smart they would stop looking for programmer get some artist together and make a game based off Visual3D.NET    

Making a game engine in java is also dumb.

do you have arguments to back that? any reason why C# would be better than Java, while they are almost equal (with the difference that Java is cross-platform, which is why whe chose it)?

Serious high end projects would use c++ or c# and have a smaller better organized team who are not all college student who have home work to do.

So what if we have home work to do? We're doing this for fun, not our full-time job. Almost any open-source project is made up of people who have school or a job. also i don't see how our team should be smaller, as it's only 2-3 people here

You know what?  I have a team of five other people depending on my component for a huge assignment that makes up 80% of our final mark in a six credit course in two weeks.  What little free time I have, I cherish.  You have no place to come and tell us that somehow we're inadequate because we can't make time in our lives right now.  I don't know about these other teams.  Some people have more free time, others are just better at making free time.  In either case, good for them for using it productively.   

As far as Java goes, I'm still reserved as far as using it to create a 3D RTS engine.  However, I don't think the RTS would be a realistic project in any language given our small team and limited collective experience.  I do think Java is a very viable language for making a 2D RPG engine, and that's probably more within our skill range at the moment.  I'd love to make the RTS, but whether we get there or not doesn't matter.  We're in this for our own enjoyment and personal development.

Anyways, didn't your mother ever tell you that if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all?  Aleph Wren was very polite in expressing his concerns, and I can respect that.  However, you seem to be more concerned with attacking us personally.  That's what is called a "troll" in most circles.  I'd thank you to be more respectful in the future, not just to us but everyone.  Makes the world a slightly better place 

2D RPG engine programmed in Java will not get you to anything
If your goal is to make a game engine try to waist your little time on learning object oriented programming in c++
And if you think bubber is rude you are in a huge mistake
He just wants to express his feelings about your wrong way
we Care about you guys we could have ignore this

If your goal is to make a game engine try to waist your little time on learning object oriented programming in c++

I still don't see any real arguments here. Only the ancient prejudice of "Java is slow, C++ is fast"

And if you think bubber is rude you are in a huge mistake
He just wants to express his feelings about your wrong way

Yes but it's about the manner he said it in

2D RPG engine programmed in Java will not get you to anything
 

Fair enough, but my underlying question is why?  I've talked to plenty of people who hate Java, and plenty who love it.  Neither are a good source of info when deciding whether to use the language or not.  Those who hate it will discount it for things that it certainly is capable of doing, and those who love it will stretch its capabilities beyond what's practical.  As a result, I'm always a bit skeptical of those who talk about Java one way or the other without backing up their claims. 

If your goal is to make a game engine try to waist your little time on learning object oriented programming in c++

I've done OOP in C++ and Java, and I'm comfortable working in either.  At this point, I don't consider the technical aspects of the language to be a barrier to me.  It's my lack of experience with regards to larger programs and projects that holds me back.  That's why I consider a project like this a great place for personal growth in the field.

And if you think bubber is rude you are in a huge mistake
He just wants to express his feelings about your wrong way
we Care about you guys we could have ignore this

I have no problems with what he said, but rather how he said it.  The way he talked came across more as a personal attack than constructive criticism.  I have no problems engaging with criticism, and I'm open to discuss any of the points you two have brought up if we can all keep a civil tone.  As has been mentioned around the forums, we're not very experienced and we do appreciate when others take some time out to advise us.

Dudes if you ever had any hope of you are seriously deluded these guys have no clue. Making a game engine in java is also dumb. Serious high end projects would use c++ or c# and have a smaller better organized team who are not all college student who have home work to do. Anyway the way to go is c# and XNA. You guys would be better of developing a RTS game for an existing engine 

Neoaxis is too small he’s going to end up going to slow and having an obsolete engine when he’s done (if he in the highly unlikely circumstance ever gets done).  Visual3D.NET is the most advance XNA engine that I have found you would be seriously better off developing something off that.  Visual3D.NET have is still in the beta faze and will not be usable until at least beta 2.X and most likely you would want to wait for beta 3.X or RC 1. As soon as XNA 2.0 is out they will integrate that .

The Visual3D.NET team already are experienced they build the Realmware engine they have like 8 active member. If anyone here was smart they would stop looking for programmer get some artist together and make a game based off Visual3D.NET

Seriously? I think you're right! At least, partially.
You're right I have no clue about programming an engine. Never claimed otherwise.

You're right too that "Serious high end projects would use c++ or c# and have a smaller better organized team who are not all college student who have home work to do." Well, I doubt these teams would be smaller, but aside from that I agree.
I have in no single way the illusion that we could compete on the same level with experienced (professional) teams.

The point where I think you're wrong is our goal.
Should we give up because we can't be the best? What if everyone who wasn't the best, or at least has a good shot at being best, just gave up?

In a sports league, there's also always one team which is the best, one team that is the winner. And then there's second place, third, etc. Those teams even further down don't give up because they stand little chance of winning. Instead they just continue doing their best. They do this because they like what they do, and have fun doing it!

As for the programming language. When we set out in search for a language, we didn't randomly pick one. We've got enough reason to pick Java over other languages. Sure, those you name might result in a better performing engine, but that isn't the only thing we're after. Each language comes with advantages and disadvantages.

Solinx

Well looks like this project is going more or less no where.

not really, but we really lack people, and those who are here mostly lack time