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Faction idea
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CoonDawg
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« on: November 22, 2006, 03:16:50 am »

I know there's already a topic about this, but I figured it would just be easier for everyone to separate the two ideas into a topic.

First off, I doubt this will be as widely accepted as Darvin's. This is just a suggestion so that maybe this one can have some ideas added to Darvin's. At the very least it can hopefully increase popularity for this project, and I had fun writing it up anyway.

Also this isn't finished, I have more factions I'd like to add and I know the format is sloppy, I'll be fixing it frequently. I've also not given the factions names yet, as I am the least creative person when it comes to thinking up unique names. Feel free for input.

Oh and yeah, I did take some ideas from Darvin. This is more or less a modification of his into my opinions.

Faction 1:

Build style:

Faction one relies primarily on their fortress. They can easily build large castles, involving nearly impenetrable walls, and high turrets that can be garrisoned by medium-ranged units.

While these defenses can be built rather quickly, they cannot be created on a whim. Builders have to leave the fortress and work on turrets and walls from the outside as well as the inside, preventing defenses from being rebuilt during a siege.

The cons of this faction is that while it can very quickly gain resources from inside it’s castle walls, external resources have to be collected very slowly. This forces the Faction to expand it’s base as much as possible, or build a second base. However building a second base is very expensive, and has a wait time, where if attacked it will be destroyed. While building a new base would generally be much quicker than expanding your walls to it, it is risky. The player would have to plan accordingly.

You can build outside of your walls. However these buildings have an upkeep cost, and cost much more to create. Also, since Faction 1’s buildings are quite weak, they won’t stand up long against armies. The farther away from the castle walls the more these penalties apply. After a certain distance they cannot be built at all.

Since this faction stresses base-building, early-game units are weak and mostly good for defense purposes. It’s main offensive strength is territory. Since it’s bases are so difficult to penetrate, gaining a resource building severely hinders the enemy, as it will have great difficulty regaining it, successfully choking them.

It has high-tech late-game units. It’s siege is relatively good, though not as good as some other factions’. It’s foot units are superb, with good archers and great swordsman.

Short Summary: Is a late game faction. It’s greatest asset is it’s ability to choke the enemy, and is almost impossible to harass with land units.

Faction two:

Build Style:

This faction lives to harass and use it’s great covert abilities.

It’s citadel is above ground, along with some key buildings. But most of it’s base is underground. If the citadel is destroyed, all it’s buildings are rendered unusable until the citadel is repaired.

It can slowly tunnel to any place on the map, even enemy bases. Because of it’s ability to tunnel, it could be directly below an enemy army without them ever knowing. This tunneling is very useful, as it can sap walls, buildings (excluding enemy citadels), and even armies. This is very tactical in army vs. army combat, as sapping under an enemy army kills/injures the army. Sapping armies takes a much longer time to set up, as you need a large pit, as compared to walls whereas they just need to sink a few feet. The wider you want the pit, the longer it takes to build. The more damage you want it to deal, the deeper it needs to be, thus longer it takes to dig. Surviving units from the fall will find themselves underground, in faction 2’s tunnels, where they’ll need to fight past any armies that may be down there. However take care doing this as the enemy now has an accessible tunnel it can travel, so you’ll need to collapse it after you’re done, or else they might follow the tunnel straight back to your base. And if the surviving units from the fall are able to defeat the armies and diggers, and you’re unable to collapse the tunnel, you’ll have to somehow force them out of your tunnel quickly, or else the enemy can set up a defense around the entrance and use it against your own base. And since most of the base is underground, there are no defenses, other than your own units, which they have slight combat bonuses and a large visual bonus.

Sapping an enemy base can be very useful, but if you do not collapse the tunnel quickly after, the enemy can dig the destructed building out and enter your tunnel.

You can build some weak palings to protect your citadel, and some towers. But your greatest defense is to build sap pits around your base, so that in the event of an attack you can use them to destroy enemy armies. Building saps and tunnels around your citadel can be done very quickly, but the farther from your base you build, the longer and more expensive it is.

You can collect resources from underground, and you can gather resources quickest from a distance compared to the other factions, not to mention the safest. However, be aware that if an enemy faction expects that you are tunneling under a resource, it can destroy your tunnel easily by dropping a lot of weight around the resource, collapsing the tunnel. If your resource tunnel is destroyed, it cannot be rebuilt (or it costs a lot of money, not sure which) and you have to resume collecting resources from above ground. Your default resource spots cannot be collapsed.

Digging through mountains is much, much slower. However there are many caverns and caves, making base building quicker, but tunneling slower. Basically the strategy will be to explore the caverns, and only tunnel to connect caverns. Underground networks can be done far quicker on this kind of map, but it's mostly luck: If the caverns don' go in the direction you want them to, or aren't as big as you need them, it can severely hinder your digging strategy.

You cannot sap normally. Damage done to units is predefined, depending on the depth of the cavern that you're sapping through. Sapping buildings takes much longer, as the rock is much more sturdy.

Also, the caverns are connected to the surface though caves and chasms. Though the chasms are rare and hard to find, it can eliminate the usefulness of tunneling altogether. Picking this faction on mountain maps should be done with careful considerations of it's pros and cons.

It can also do covert missions, popping out the the ground without traces to damage buildings suicidally, or to steal resources from enemy stockpiles and buildings.

While their primary strength is in tunneling offensively, and it’s units are strongest under the earth, they have decent land units as well. Their ranged units are abysmal, but their foot units are very strong, with excellent vision, and hearing (Hearing alerts you to activity in the area that you cannot see, such as enemy diggers). They have no cavalry units, however they can buy them from merchants (I have no idea how merchants or trading will work at this time), but Faction 2’s units are horrible on horses and should only be used to transport units quickly.

They can also destroy buildings very quickly by entering and sabotaging them.

Faction 3:

Building style:

This faction can move about the map very quickly, have a great early-game offensive, and have the best cavalry units in the game. However they have nearly no defense, so they can’t rely on walls. Offense is it’s best defense.

Base-building is done with tents, and it can build anywhere it wants with no citadel limitation. Buildings are weak, but go up very quickly. Resource gathering is somewhat slow. The carriers can move quickly but only carry small amounts at a time.

While it’s siege equipment isn’t anything to write home about, it doesn’t need to: A simple crack in a wall is all they need to take out a base. It has the most powerful units in the game and can destroy a base before the enemy can go from the toilet back to their computer.

Their cavalry is fast, powerful, and expensive. Cavalry is its strongest suit.

Having no defense, it always has to leave some units in its base, or else they will be quickly flattened. It’s pop cap is a little lower than the others. Its archers are very good, and long ranged, although their rate of fire is slow. They are so good, that they can occasionally give one-hit-kills with headshots.

Their footmen are very well armored, but don’t do as much damage as other faction’s footmen. They are a great front-line, but massing them is a bad idea.

Faction 4:

A faction that is weak in every aspect… But cheap with a very high population cap.

The buildings are made of wood and straw, and fall over with a mere flick of the finger. This forces them to live in a tight village, or else they will be picked off easily by small forces. They can build pailings, but they won’t stop armies, just delay them for (hopefully) long enough to rally your militia to stop the invasion from destroying the village.

Buildings go up in the blink of an eye, units pop out of tents faster than momma can birth ‘em, and they fear the dark… Along with pretty much everything.

However, there is one strength they have above all the rest: A unit that lives long enough, and sees battle enough, will gain rank, and it can go up in rank much higher than other units. Eventually it could turn into a hero unit. While difficult to do and rare to happen, it can turn a militia army into a powerful Viking-type army. Meaning now you have a large army of relatively good units.

Units that don’t turn into heroes are still powerful, fearless, and raise the bravery of surrounding units a small amount.

They have little armor available, but they can buy some. The armor will increase the chance of survival, but it’s a waste on low ranking units. Using them on highly experienced units, however, can be an incredible combo, possibly creating an unstoppable army.

This faction will be great for the newbie and pro alike. More casual players can use the enormous numbers to their advantage, while advanced players can take advantage of the high ranking system and the high pop cap.

The militia can steal armor and weapons from other units it kills, and the more units it kills the more fearless (and reckless) it becomes. Les fear means they fight harder, and longer, and less of a chance to retreat. However after a certain fearless level they begin disobeying orders, and fighting to death, whether you like it or not. Bravery and rank are two different things. Bravery keeps you fighting longer, but rank increases the amount the units listen to you, and the power they have.

Resource collecting is quick, but only near the village. The farther away the resource is from the village, the slower it is.

The higher the morale is in the village, the faster they will collect resources. Morale in the village is affected by the amount the village is attacked, the rank of the military units (Families are proud of their sons and fathers), and the size and success of your army all affects morale.

Siege mostly relies on rams, but their catapults are quite decent, too. While they are weak, they are sturdy, swift, and accurate. And do to their cheap nature they can easily be in large numbers.

Since the units are afraid of the dark, they move very slowly through tunnels and will frequently run out of it (if they are able to).

Faction 5
(Note that this is just an idea and it could possibly destroy the whole balance of my idea. I’ll just write this in for a different suggestive faction idea)

Magical units that die easily, but do a lot of damage quickly at short ranges.

Their buildings are built above ground on magical pillars/in trees (not sure yet). They gather resources from range steadily, but the farther away the resource is the more magical force it takes to collect it. Resource collecting comes in levels. To increase the speed, you have to buy a tier upgrade. All resources are collected through a building, which is a tactical destructible: Meaning it being destroyed is devastating to the faction. It is expensive to rebuild and all tier upgrades to it are lost.

It has air units, and can drop units straight into castles and villages.

It has magical defenses, severely hindering units in the area. These defenses are short-ranged, so an attacker’s main target would be the magical pillars. After that there’s an invisible wall that must be weakened by attacking it with ground units. Sieging has no effect on them (Unless the catapults can reach the source of the shield.)

Being above ground, sapping has to affect on buildings, although tunneling is still somewhat affective. However Faction 5 can create barriers underground, also, which cannot be dug through. The only way you can dig through an underground barrier is for your land units to destroy the building creating it (This forces a balanced attack against Faction 5). The underground barriers take a long time to rebuild, so tunneling units will have plenty of time to dig under.

Upon entering the magical city, the attackers are now at a very large advantage. Faction 5 is weak against close-range combat, as a lot of their attacks are AoE, their buildings are expensive and weak, and just a little damage can go a long way. They have one magical offensive “tower”, which does moderate damage at a fast pace. However after the walls are down, they are very easily destroyed, and they are very expensive and slow to build.

Offensively, they have a powerful (although expensive) unit that can do fire damage. This is particularly useful against faction 4, which is mostly wood and straw. With this fire attack they can burn forests, and flush people out of tunnels.

Since their units are expensive and weak, it is a poor idea to expose them to immediate danger without an attribute unit. Attribute units can either greatly hinder nearby attackers, or greatly improve allied units. They are very expensive, slow, and weak, But without them you will lose every battle.
Even though they are very weak, it doesn’t matter: Since Faction 5 uses AoE attacks, large armies can quickly be eliminated. But if the enemy army reaches the faction’s units, they will be promptly stomped on, ran over, than beat to death with their carcasses.

Faction 6:
The generic, basic, balanced faction.
The units have a balance between armor and attack. They have good archers and footmen, and good siege equipment. They can build short stone walls, the buildings have a normal amount of health, are built with a fair amount of expense, and build at a (you guesed it) normal rate.
They can build tunnels (although slowly) to connect castle to castle, but cannot be used offensively like Faction 2.

They have some weak cavalry, and an average population cap. They have a very slight magical ability. But instead of a large AoE attack, it can be used as a weak ranged attack by footmen, and can give buffs to certain units.

There’s not much to say about this faction, it’s just a plain, balanced faction.

Faction 8:
Faction 8 is a naval faction. It can builds it’s base just off shore, giving it the ability to fish for it’s food. This hinders it’s ability to get building materials, but gives it a great growth rate, and some extra defense (It can only be attacked from the front of the base or the back and sides with boats).

As it has poor land-structures (The off-shore base is built on a flat, metal surface and the builders are not accustomed to uneven land) that build slowly and cost large sums of resources, they try the best they can to cram as much as they can on their small platform. Building materials are hard to get, as they live off-shore. Which creates a large problem, since boats are made of wood.

Boats are very difficult to create, as they are so expensive and resources are hard to come by. Because of this, Faction 8 relies heavily on trade: They have to trade their food for building materials.

Boats are siege machines. They can destroy a city from the ocean with their long-range weapons, and then conquer it with their brave footmen and deadly accurate archers. The biggest of the constructible ships can carry entire armies, including land siege equipment and cavalry.

While Faction 8’s strength is by far naval warfare, it can conquer inner-land territories, too. The land-units are quite strong, and have good sieging equipment. They have no cavalry, but they can buy horses.

Naval warfare being it’s strong suit, it is best to monopolize the sea and destroy all shore-bases before venturing on land.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2006, 08:25:14 am by CoonDawg » Logged
Pepe
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« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2006, 11:46:47 am »

i like the idea for the 8th faction. The resource building fe... could be a small dock to which trading boats would sail. Or it'd be like a dowk with small cranes on it to fish up crates drifting in the sea, which are either goods from a sunken ship or just pieces they use for their buildings. Their buildings could be like recuperated pieces of ships. They'd definately be my preferred facion Smiley
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blitzsieg
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« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2006, 10:26:41 pm »

well it'd be hard to make it easy to tunnel, but I think its a good idea.

Also, the tunneling better not be like C&C Generals/BFME2..that was dumb
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CoonDawg
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« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2006, 10:28:14 pm »

Oh hell no. Wait.. .Tunneling in BFME?

Think of it like how the sims has multiple stories? Well, ground would be in stories, except the underground would have a depth to it, too.
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Solinx
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« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2006, 11:57:41 pm »

Welcome to the boards Blitzsieg Smiley
The generals/BFME tunnel system had it's good points, but it wouldn't be my first choice either.

Your approach to the tunneling doesn't fit into my personal idea of realism, but having tunnels an sich would be cool.
Or rather, caves, a cave system already present in the map. Starting from there could be one or more factions that could be allowed to create tunnels, short tunnels. Long tunnels at that time wouldn't hold.

You've worked out quite a lot of things around the tunnels, some of them will be tricky to implent, like with the interactive environment, there are limits and while I agree these points should be attempted to be brought into the game, I'm not sure if it will be possible.

Also, as you know, Darvin's story is preferred, but that doesn't make your factions worthless. You bring up some good ideas, most regarding the actual tactics, (unit) strenghts and limits. As soon as Darvin has posted the detailed versions of his last to factions, I'll certainly look into combining a few of your ideas with his factions. Looking for things that would fit together, fit the theme that Darvin describes.

Solinx
« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 09:00:09 pm by Solinx » Logged



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CoonDawg
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« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2006, 12:32:11 am »

Thanks.

I understand tunneling really destroys the attempt to keep this game realistic. So I guess it would be a much better idea to just leave it as a mod, or maybe an easter egg type thing. Obviously it won't fit into Darvin's campaign.

Unless we can add mole-men? That'd be a riot to model... Add an interesting combat animation, too.
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Solinx
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« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2006, 01:00:39 am »

I won't say that tunnels won't fit yet, not untill I've read all 5 full descriptions and they really won't fit.

Solinx
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« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2006, 04:46:08 am »

I think short range sapper tunnels are fine, but long range (as in, between bases) is not alright.  I don't think we'll have the Armies of Exigo thing going on with above-ground and below-ground simultaneously, which I feel would be necessary to get the concept to work appropriately.
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« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2007, 04:52:03 pm »

Good idea, coon. I'm guessing that the primary strategy would be to build up a good defensive, than start pumping out the late game troops to quash enemy resistance. Correct me it i'm wrong.
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