next »

Will there be any? Let’s assume there will be. Will it only be fore a “world-map” or will you be able to use it in battle? For combat, or only for transportation of units? Let’s assume yes to all of these. My suggestions…

They’re royally expensive, and only some of the more advanced factions can really make any big ones. My Faction 4 would be limited to large rafts while Darvin’s Baulkins and my Faction 1 would be able to craft immense Arcs, transporting huge armies and able to launch catapults and ballistas and arrows. Basically a mobile fortress. In fact… Scrap that, I’ll suggest a 7th faction

I was thinking of a submarine or underwater units, perhaps some magical ones or primitive “suicide” submarines used to destroy other boats or damage shore buildings.

I was also thinking you could use water to flood tunnels, killing units in it and making them useless (along with any tunnels that connect to it later). Imagine being able to make a deep underwater tunnel to stop others from tunneling into your base. The only way to get around this is to dig really deep, or go over it. You could also dig rivers if you wanted to, but that would easily be bridgeable.

Your thoughts?

Submarines... let's not go there.  This is definitely more of a Middle Ages setting, and steam punk is definitely out of place.  Personally, I'd like to see only one or two boats per faction.  Each faction would have its own character out to sea.  Rather than being independant units, boats would exist as a tool.

A boat on its own would be inert.  If units get on board, they can man it and sail it around.  In combat, archers and siege weapons loaded continue to operate normally.  If you get close enough, some boats can ram for direct damage, or board to let melee warriors do their work.  You'd be able to capture (especially if they're docked in harbour) boats and steal them from your enemy.  The idea is that a boat isn't much of an addition to the game itself, but rather it's simply a new platform for the old land based units to take their battles beyond the confines of land.

This could help: http://www.forumplanet.com/RPGPlanet/memw/topic.asp?fid=14159&tid=1713637

Wow, memories :-P

Anyways, I wouldn't follow that thread to the letter, but the fundamental premise is what I'd like to see.

The only problem I have with this is that a boat (of ANY sort) takes skill to man properly. Thus, I think it would be best that players construct ships like ordinary RTS units, which come loaded with enough sailors for it to move and to have minimum combat capabilities. Soldiers could be added for extra combat, or more sailors for improved movement. Soldiers could also man cannons (if applicable) or other on board ranged weapons.

We're pre-gunpowder, so no cannons.


Conceptually, Balkurn and Varnost will be hard to accomodate, since they don't have traditional need of navies.  However, they both have unrelenting persistance and a degree of ingenuity when it comes to facing adversity that has been forged through hardship, and I doubt they'd be afraid to tackle a little water in an intuitive manner.


I have no qualms with dedicated mariner units, just make sure it's low management.

battle ships should be created completely manned. unlike in bfme 2, the crew should be visible in some way
transport ships would be created unmanned (for fighting). some ranged units (like archers, but not catapults) can attack from them if they are transported on it

Catapults should definitely only operate from galleys, and big ones at that.  I want to focus on ships just being a platform for combat.  They're a new theatre and environment for the same lot of units to fight in, therefor adding to the versitility of the game, rather than restricting it.  The one problem with a full battleship crew is that if you're at your population limit you couldn't build more ships, when you could easily crew one up with existing units.  We need a low management solution that let's people get default units easily (and fairly), but also allowing them to forgo default units if they already have enough to act as an alternative.

So what you propose is to have the ability to build as many ships as you want, no matter what your population count is. They will all have a basic sailors crew, making them able to move around, but none will have a fighting crew by default.

The fighting crew would be whichever unit(s) you decide to put on the decks. This/These unit(s) would be one (or more) of your regular units that you already trained at a barrack, archery range, etc.

Liking it

Solinx

So what you propose is to have the ability to build as many ships as you want, no matter what your population count is. They will all have a basic sailors crew, making them able to move around, but none will have a fighting crew by default.

maybe we should limit the number of ships to the number/size of your docks and/or shipwrights (the people, not the buildings)

Yeah, that is a good point. Size would be preferable, or ppl would just go spamming docks at random locations.

Solinx

The idea is that for all intents and purposes, the combat potential of your navy is defined by the troops you can put on them.  If you have a huge navy but no land army, it's largely inert.  A small, well stocked navy could just board all your ships and capture them.

The complexity issue we have right now is how to represent the "basic crew".  After all, the ship can be captured, the crew can be killed, etc.

We're pre-gunpowder, so no cannons.

I sort of expected this, but I do think that some form of replacement is in order. Navies in ancient pre-gunpowder times were largely used to blockade foes and transport soldiers; nothing more.

Will the ships in question be primitive, oar-driven boats, or would they be multi-rigger ships designed for speed, strength, and naval domination? Will magical weapons be used in place of shot and powder?

There will be three primary ways to fight in naval combat.  The first is to ram other boats.  Only galleys (oar-driven boats) will be able to do this, and sail-driven boats will likely be too fast for them to do this effectively against.  The second way to fight is to board an enemy vessel.  This involves getting close enough and then using some method to latch on to the opposing boat and allow for ground troops to cross.  The final way to fight is to used ranged weapons in an attempt to destroy the other boat or its occupants.  Archers, and even smaller siege weapons, may all be applicable.  Magic may also be seen.

Navy will be primarily for blockading and transporting, with the emphasis being on land.  However, that doesn't mean that it wont add depth.

So I'm guessing the scale that is planned for OW (chuckles at acronym.. again!) is pretty large, particularly for an RTS (as in base building resource managing rather than Total War) is utterly massive.

The concept is currently vague; for certain BFME2 is the absolutely minimal scale we will see, but at the far end I'm looking at SupCom as an example of what large scale may be like.  I want to get a balance where we as players can really feel the large scale, but also find a way of focussing the combat into specific areas to get a small scale effect.  I'm not sure how to achieve this, and it may require experimentation and reworking.

chuckles at acronym.. again!

am i missing something, not living in the US (or wherever you're from )?

I believe he just finds the acronym for Open War ("OW", as in short for "ouch") humorous.

Personally, I like the double meaning of being an open war game engine, and open war being a state of direct hostilities.

"OW", as in short for "ouch"

oh, I though it was more pronounced like "O", not "OU"

Personally, I like the double meaning of being an open war game engine, and open war being a state of direct hostilities

actually, I only realised that one long after having picked the name

Indeed, I am from the dreadful United States. 

Anyway, I like the way you put it, Darvin. If achieved (If achievable?), it will be a perfect balance between small scale management and large scale warfare. That's one of the few things Supcom actually does well (yes, I'm not a fan of Supcom. Sue me.), that being a combination of small scale and large scale.